Wikipedia

For issues which concern all or several type of DFs and which DO NOT fit into any category below!
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rps
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon 18 May 09, 13:29
Your Country: Portugal,Coimbra

Wikipedia

Post by rps »

Hello.

I don't know if you are familiar with wikipedia. Some time ago I started a page about Dragonfly trimarans there:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragonfly_Trimarans

That page could, of course, use some more info. In particular 2 useful things would be:
1 - Some more info about the SwingWing system, since it is the most characteristic feature of Dragonflies.
2 - If you own pictures of Dragonflies, I think one or two pictures of each model (the 800 already has a couple) could be useful.

BTW, if you add text to it, remember that it should be neutral, not fan-type
Oscar
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Post by Oscar »

Very nice!
1990 Dragonfly 25 USA-54
EarthBM
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Joined: Fri 17 Sep 10, 0:54
Your Country: USA, So Cal -- So Florida

Update model changes?

Post by EarthBM »

Something I expected to find on Wiki and didn't, so rather that starting a new topic, think it belongs in this thread. What were the start and end model years, and changes?

Specifically I was looking for DF 1000 data, and there isn't much, and there seems to be fewer owners on this board than, say 920 or even 1200.
Steve B.
Posts: 235
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Your Country: USA, Whidbey Island WA

1000 data

Post by Steve B. »

What do you want to know?
There are lots of 1000 owners here.
EarthBM
Posts: 206
Joined: Fri 17 Sep 10, 0:54
Your Country: USA, So Cal -- So Florida

Re: 1000 data

Post by EarthBM »

Steve B. wrote:What do you want to know?
There are lots of 1000 owners here.
Oh boy! Here are some questions:
- When did DF stop making 1000?
- Why is it not on DF website even if DF 800 is? Does that mean parts are harder to procure?
- Why is it slower than others, where does the weight come from? Does it make it less prone for capsize?

Basically I am trying to figure out the evolution of engineering solutions from 800 to 35... Eg why do used 920s seem to sell for about same price as 1000s? What was the original sale price (I recall $107k in US for 920 in late 90s)

Sorry for ? overload...

(there are 3 DFs for sale in US right now -- 2 1000s and 1 920. Trying to make a purchase decision)
parkhouse
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Post by parkhouse »

The 2002 Df 1000 for sale in California may be the same boat that was put up for sale at an auction in 2008(?), asking price $29000, following a grounding during bad weather. The boat, "Flamboyant", was holed below the waterline - perhaps one of the other USA members will be able to give more details. The first 35 Df 1000s were built between 1994 and 1999. I'm not aware of many after 1999. The price difference between 920 and 1000 could be explained by the fact that the 1000 is not a current model, having been replaced by the 35. There are several posts concerning the performance of the Df 1000 and the gist of it is that the 920 is undoubtedly the star performer. On the other hand, the 1000 is capable of lengthy passages while the 920 is aimed at the day sailer, racer or short-spell cruiser. I have not had any difficulty in acquiring spares for the 1000.
Mike Paterson
Df 1000-34, Champus
Double Horizon
Posts: 440
Joined: Wed 09 May 07, 0:18
Your Country: USA

Post by Double Horizon »

parkhouse wrote:The 2002 Df 1000 for sale in California may be the same boat that was put up for sale at an auction in 2008(?), asking price $29000, following a grounding during bad weather. The boat, "Flamboyant", was holed below the waterline - perhaps one of the other USA members will be able to give more details. The first 35 Df 1000s were built between 1994 and 1999. I'm not aware of many after 1999. The price difference between 920 and 1000 could be explained by the fact that the 1000 is not a current model, having been replaced by the 35. There are several posts concerning the performance of the Df 1000 and the gist of it is that the 920 is undoubtedly the star performer. On the other hand, the 1000 is capable of lengthy passages while the 920 is aimed at the day sailer, racer or short-spell cruiser. I have not had any difficulty in acquiring spares for the 1000.
Mike Paterson
Df 1000-34, Champus
Yes that boat for sale in California looks like the one that was declared a total loss by the insurance company. I think that sliding outboard bracket on the aft rail was a unique custom feature of that particular boat (bracket shown in picture 4 of the yachtworld listing). It might have been repaired correctly, but anyone buying that boat would need to have a very careful survey, with emphasis on hull, wiring and engine.

I would recommend any prospective buyer contact the second owner to find out what happened to the boat and what damages would need to have been repaired. (His name is Joel, and his contact information should be with the boat's owner history).
Larry - Former Owner DF-1200
Double Horizon
Posts: 440
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Your Country: USA

Re: 1000 data

Post by Double Horizon »

EarthBM wrote:
Steve B. wrote:What do you want to know?
There are lots of 1000 owners here.
Oh boy! Here are some questions:
- When did DF stop making 1000?
- Why is it not on DF website even if DF 800 is? Does that mean parts are harder to procure?
- Why is it slower than others, where does the weight come from? Does it make it less prone for capsize?

Basically I am trying to figure out the evolution of engineering solutions from 800 to 35... Eg why do used 920s seem to sell for about same price as 1000s? What was the original sale price (I recall $107k in US for 920 in late 90s)

Sorry for ? overload...

(there are 3 DFs for sale in US right now -- 2 1000s and 1 920. Trying to make a purchase decision)
I will try to answer each of your questions.
1) It's possible other 1000's were made after 2002, but I am sure 2002 is the last one imported to the US.

2) You should contact Dragonfly USA to determine if you can still get parts for the 1000. I'm pretty sure you can get everything essential, because it's all just standard boat parts, and I know of one instance where new molded fiberglass hull parts for the 1000 were shipped from Quorning as recently as last year.

The 1000 is a heavier boat because it has MUCH more volume than the 920, and it also carries much more weight in "systems", inboard engine and tankage, and heavier rigging. The extra 3 feet is in the middle of the boat where you have a much broader center hull and more contents (both models have narrow ends). The size difference is only apparent when you go below -- the 1000 interior seems huge (headroom and beam, and especially head compartment) compared to the 920. Inside it seems twice as large.

The 1000 is slightly slower than the 920, and the difference is most significant in the "middle" range (around 7-15 knots of wind). In heavier wind it has about the same top speed and in light air they both move about the same. I don't think the 1000 can be capsized any easier than the 920, in fact because it is so much lighter I think it would be easier to capsize the 920.

3) Web site: The 1000 was replaced by the 35. Quorning would probably still build an 800 but would not build a 1000.

4) 920s seem to sell for about same price as 1000s because they are newer.

As for your purchase decision: How do you plan to use the boat? Where? If you want to cruise, how many kids (if any) and ages? I have owned both boats and can advise you based on that.
Larry - Former Owner DF-1200
EarthBM
Posts: 206
Joined: Fri 17 Sep 10, 0:54
Your Country: USA, So Cal -- So Florida

Post by EarthBM »

Seeing that 1000s model run seems to have finished around 2002, and 35 did not start until 2005-06, there is a lack of continuity that I am trying to understand. As if 1000 production stopped not because there is a newer model, but for other reasons. Am I being too paranoid? What model-specific parts are the most likely to need replacement?

Mike -- thanks for the pointer on the 1000 for sale in California now! Obviously this is invaluable info.

The primary use of the boat would be as weekend sailor for the next couple of years. We are not spoiled by winds here, 5-15kt mostly. The weekend choices are to go around oil rigs on the same day, or to Catalina island on a weekend (25nm away). I have 3 boys, ages 4-11, but most of the time I would be single-handing it, because they don't live with me. I could buy a DF 35 (if Rich Suriani ever answered emails), but this would be my first big boat, and it feels foolish to dish out that kind of dough on your first boat. I sailed beach cats and Laser dinghies in the past and had some basic instruction on keel boats (ASA 101) and went out on them as crew a couple of times. So I figured I might as well learn on the type of boat I will be sailing into the sunset in about 10-20 years' time. Perhaps with an experienced multihull instructor on board at first (if I find one).

Now, I know this is a DF forum, but have to ask. Newport Harbor is one of the most expensive docking locations in the world (can rent a 35' slip for about $750/mo, or buy a mooring for $40k). The alternative to DF is to get a mooring and a Corsair (cheaper/faster/not as nice finish, I know) or a fixed wing Tri of a similar size (are there any?). The obvious advantage of a DF is that you can use a regular slip. The question is how many here actually fold/unfold the amas every time they go? Is this a real option in a busy harbor?
Double Horizon
Posts: 440
Joined: Wed 09 May 07, 0:18
Your Country: USA

Post by Double Horizon »

Given your stated experience level and planned use, you might be better off with the 920 than the 1000 because it's a bit easier to handle (loads are smaller) but the 1000 would be better for sleeping arrangements with 3 children. If you plan to take your kids overnight, the 1000 would let you sleep 2 kids on the port settee (it opens to a double) and one small kid on the starboard side (it is a short, narrow berth) and you'd have more room to stow belongings and move about. The 920 main cabin settee berths will open to full-length singles, one each side, so if you have two kids sleep together in the v-berth you could take one of the berths using the settees. If the weather is nice you can also pitch a 2-person tent on each net (no joking, my sons enjoyed sleeping out there in pop-up tents if it wasn't raining or too windy).

As for folding each time you go, there are people who do it but I don't recommend it. One consideration is that the maximum rated cross-wind is 45mph when folded -- so you should use your halyards as safety guy lines to the dock in event of storms, one each side. It's also about as much effort to fold each side as it is to raise the main sail, so it can become a lot of work if the weather is very hot.

I prefer a mooring anyway -- less wear on the hull, quieter, and the breeze is always from the front so it flows right down the hatch. Add a few solar panels and you only need food/water/fuel once in a while. (Sometimes I just like to go to the boat on the mooring for a few hours get-away -- no need to sail.)

As for contacting Richard, I suggest you give him a call.

With regard to parts -- it's fiberglass, aluminum, stainless and rigging. Anything can be copied and fabricated right here in the US, it's just easier to get replacements from the maker. I had a machine shop make chain plates for me and it was less costly. What are you likely to need? Water-stays should be replaced on a 5 year cycle, and they're readily available from Quorning.
Last edited by Double Horizon on Sat 18 Sep 10, 21:05, edited 1 time in total.
Larry - Former Owner DF-1200
EarthBM
Posts: 206
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Post by EarthBM »

Thank you! 920 would be my first choice if it were available here and didn't cost the same as 1000. I may still make the effort and see if trucking across the one for sale on the East coast is an option, especially if the 1000 here turns out to be a lemon.

If there is any advice you have that you would'n post in a public forum, I'd greatly appreciate it on email at [my forum name]@gmail.com
Double Horizon
Posts: 440
Joined: Wed 09 May 07, 0:18
Your Country: USA

Post by Double Horizon »

EarthBM wrote:Thank you! 920 would be my first choice if it were available here and didn't cost the same as 1000. I may still make the effort and see if trucking across the one for sale on the East coast is an option, especially if the 1000 here turns out to be a lemon.

If there is any advice you have that you wouldn't post in a public forum, I'd greatly appreciate it on email at [my forum name]@gmail.com
I suggest you call Richard at Dragonfly USA. He can advise about trucking, and also knows all the Dragonfly boats and owners in the Americas. If there is a used DF for sale he probably knows about it. (Some boats that are for sale aren't advertised.)

Sorry to all for the thread drift.
Larry - Former Owner DF-1200
tpaliwoda
Posts: 215
Joined: Fri 03 Nov 06, 3:05
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Post by tpaliwoda »

I second everything Larry has been telling you. I own hull # 1 of the 1000 model. It is a 1992 boat and we are contemplating selling it.
Richard is handling it and we will be listing it starting at the Annapolis Boat show in two weeks. The price listed is far below what the one in Calif. is listed at, even trucking it across the country, you would still be far ahead!
Richard has the listing on the boat, ask him about Ted's boat.

Welcome to the forum, and best of luck in your search
Ted
Ted Paliwoda
D'Fly 1000 ; HN #1
Nice Tri
Raritan YC, Perth Amboy, NJ, USA
Mika Harju
Posts: 218
Joined: Thu 02 Nov 06, 13:19
Your Country: Finland, Turku

Post by Mika Harju »

EarthBM wrote:
If there is any advice you have that you would'n post in a public forum, I'd greatly appreciate it on email at [my forum name]@gmail.com
I have sent you an email including some more information about DF1000
Mika Harju
DF1000 Racing #8
penryj
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu 12 Jun 08, 7:19
Your Country: New York, NY

Post by penryj »

Hi Larry,
Could you elaborate on your reservations about using the folding system on a regular basis. Certainly from a time perspective, it can be a pain, but are there concerns from a structural aspect. Is this more of an issue on older models like the 1000 rather than on the DF35?
Regards
Penry
Mika Harju
Posts: 218
Joined: Thu 02 Nov 06, 13:19
Your Country: Finland, Turku

Post by Mika Harju »

penryj wrote:Hi Larry,
Could you elaborate on your reservations about using the folding system on a regular basis.
Regards
Penry
I need to use the folding system every time I go for sailing; maybe 50 times per season. During past five years I have got my DF1000R there has not been any problems with it. In the very beginning of the season it takes about 15 minutes to operate it, but after few times of practice it takes less than 10 minutes.
No problem!
Mika Harju
DF1000 Racing #8
Double Horizon
Posts: 440
Joined: Wed 09 May 07, 0:18
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Post by Double Horizon »

penryj wrote:Hi Larry,
Could you elaborate on your reservations about using the folding system on a regular basis. Certainly from a time perspective, it can be a pain, but are there concerns from a structural aspect. Is this more of an issue on older models like the 1000 rather than on the DF35?
Regards
Penry
As Mika pointed out, there is no problem with it (if the boat is in a well-protected harbor with no large waves). The other limits (folded) are that solar panels mounted on the amas will be covered by the nets (not an issue if you have shore power) and you will not be able to open hatches in the amas covered by the folded beams. When you fold any Dragonfly model, the amas are lowered deeper in the water to place more flotation out-board and provide increased form-stability. This also raises the center hull by a few inches but does not affect slow-speed handling at the dock. (Folded or not, it is critical to keep the centerboard down for good slow-speed steering control).
Larry - Former Owner DF-1200
penryj
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu 12 Jun 08, 7:19
Your Country: New York, NY

Post by penryj »

OK, thanks. I was concerned that they may relate to excess wear and tear issues with the folding mechanism rather than "features" of ownership.
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