Electric float winches.

including Amas (Floats), Akas (Beams) , Swing Wing system and all other hull related issues.
Post Reply
Mal
Posts: 83
Joined: Thu 02 Nov 06, 16:48
Your Country: Wales

Electric float winches.

Post by Mal »

Anyone got electric winches on their 920 for winching in the floats? Were they an option on bigger DFs like DF1000?

Anyone tried alternatives like electric 90 degree drills such as the Milwaukee 24v fitted with suitable bit? Have seen some posts on other sailing forums about them, but a bit inconclusive.
DF920 Pelican, Swansea
tpaliwoda
Posts: 215
Joined: Fri 03 Nov 06, 3:05
Your Country: USA, Raritan YC, Perth Amboy, New Jersey

Post by tpaliwoda »

Why do you need an electric winch? Only another thing to maintain.
On my 1000, I can get the main up almost all the way by hand (2-1 halyard), I use the winch for the last two or three feet.
Unfolding the boat, again, almost all by hand (or foot), last couple of feet I use the winch.
They folding mechanism should operate freely. Check what is binding it first.
Ted Paliwoda
D'Fly 1000 ; HN #1
Nice Tri
Raritan YC, Perth Amboy, NJ, USA
Double Horizon
Posts: 440
Joined: Wed 09 May 07, 0:18
Your Country: USA

Post by Double Horizon »

tpaliwoda wrote: snip

Unfolding the boat, again, almost all by hand (or foot), last couple of feet I use the winch.
They folding mechanism should operate freely. Check what is binding it first.
:? Ted what is your secret to such strength? (smile)

I understand why he'd want an electric winch, especially when the weather is hot and humid the less effort the better.

I could never fold-in by hand on any of my DFs. Unfolding is easier (gravity is in your favor, after you get it started with your foot) but as you noted, the last few feet not so easy.

With the electric winches on the 1200 the hard part is the easy part (push a button).
Larry - Former Owner DF-1200
Ipe Piccardt Brouwer
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed 01 Nov 06, 17:17
Your Country: Netherlands, Winkel NH

Post by Ipe Piccardt Brouwer »

My secret wish for an electric winch disappeared after replacing the 10mm swingwing line by 8mm dyneema. Reduces the required effort by about 50%! I guess the smaller diameter means I will have to replace it a bit sooner. It's worth that.
I have the drill bit (but never bought the drill), you can have it if you want it!
Ipe Piccardt Brouwer
DF920-28 'Ngalawa', Medemblik
tpaliwoda
Posts: 215
Joined: Fri 03 Nov 06, 3:05
Your Country: USA, Raritan YC, Perth Amboy, New Jersey

Post by tpaliwoda »

Larry - I ate my Wheaties when I was a kid! Folding the boat in is a little more difficult, but in no way am I realing winching hard.

BTW, Good luck with the storm! They are calling for 5' waves in the bay here with up to 45knt winds.
Ted Paliwoda
D'Fly 1000 ; HN #1
Nice Tri
Raritan YC, Perth Amboy, NJ, USA
Mal
Posts: 83
Joined: Thu 02 Nov 06, 16:48
Your Country: Wales

Winching in Floats

Post by Mal »

Ipe, I like your idea of using 8mm line instead of 10mm;- the sheaves look 'too full' of line, and are obviously right at the max size they will take. Have you used an uprated 8mm of some kind to be sure its strong enough?

My floats go in and out very easily when out of the water, so I don't think I've got a binding problem?

When in the water, putting them out, I push them over half way out with my feet, standing on the flange of the main hull. I have to winch the last bit, combined with a bit of jumping up and down on the aft wire running through the tramp edge for the last few centimetres.

Winching floats in is hard work though. After all, lifting 2 tons plus of boat out of the water?

Is this all normal, or are the floats on my boat harder work than they should be?
DF920 Pelican, Swansea
Ipe Piccardt Brouwer
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed 01 Nov 06, 17:17
Your Country: Netherlands, Winkel NH

Post by Ipe Piccardt Brouwer »

I just took the most expensive 8mm my chandler carries, he calls it 'racing gold' for a reason I think ;-)
It makes a big difference: I used to have to walk/jump on the trampoline to close the last centimetre. Now I can unfold completely just by winching. Last part of folding in, especially the second float, will always be harder work because you have to lift the boat a bit.
In my experience it helps to maintain every part of the system, especially the metals sheaves in the beam ends and the bearing surfaces of the floats, by dry-lubing a couple of times each season.
Ipe Piccardt Brouwer
DF920-28 'Ngalawa', Medemblik
Ipe Piccardt Brouwer
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed 01 Nov 06, 17:17
Your Country: Netherlands, Winkel NH

Problems with 8mm line

Post by Ipe Piccardt Brouwer »

Unfortunately it turns out that the 8mm dyneema line I used has its sleeve completely 'eaten' by the easylock in just one season. The easylock seems to grip only the sleeve which eventually will tear and expose the dyneema core that starts slipping through the lock immediately.
My chandler showed me that the 10mm braid has, besides its larger gripping surface, a double sleeve which increases grip on the dyneema core.
So I turned back to 10mm :cry: . Thinking continues.
Ipe Piccardt Brouwer
DF920-28 'Ngalawa', Medemblik
gminkovsky
Posts: 210
Joined: Wed 01 Nov 06, 19:58
Your Country: USA, Long Island Sound

Post by gminkovsky »

Ipe,

Perhaps this particular Dyneema rope is not very good.

My 920 came with 8mm Dyneema for swing lines. I (so far) have not had any problems with any of the Dyneema lines and easy locks. I have Dyneema in easy locks for:

main halyard
2 reef lines
swing lines
2 backstays

In my first year I had one problem with Dyneema cover on main halyard when an inexperienced crew released the lock with the line under load. This operation immediately damaged the cover. After that I put additional covers on the halyard (described in other threads).

I also had a failure in my Dyneema main halyard (described in another thread) but it was completely unrleated to the easy locks.

George
Ipe Piccardt Brouwer
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed 01 Nov 06, 17:17
Your Country: Netherlands, Winkel NH

Post by Ipe Piccardt Brouwer »

That might be part of the problem, although the same quality is used on my main halyard. Loads on the main halyard are lighter I guess. But it's true that I sometimes open the easylocks without reloading the line first. Tensioning the fold-out line, releasing the lock and then winding and whinching the fold-in line can be a hassle when entering a busy port. The old 10mm line didn't seem to suffer very much.
I thought about putting an extra cover on, but for the swingwing line this might lead to extra trouble because of the sharp turns it has to make inside the beam.
Ipe Piccardt Brouwer
DF920-28 'Ngalawa', Medemblik
Double Horizon
Posts: 440
Joined: Wed 09 May 07, 0:18
Your Country: USA

Post by Double Horizon »

George your boat came with spectra lines covered with polyester braid. As far as I know that is standard for Quorning boat control lines.

They did not come with Dyneema.

Follow-up edit: I thought Spectra and Dyneema were different. But looked it up -- they are both made from High Modulous Polyethelene (HMPE)
also known as High Molecular Weight Polyethelene (HMwPE)
Last edited by Double Horizon on Sat 16 Jul 11, 12:24, edited 1 time in total.
Larry - Former Owner DF-1200
Ipe Piccardt Brouwer
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed 01 Nov 06, 17:17
Your Country: Netherlands, Winkel NH

Dyneema / Spectra

Post by Ipe Piccardt Brouwer »

According to various internet sources, they are more or less the same.
Mal
Posts: 83
Joined: Thu 02 Nov 06, 16:48
Your Country: Wales

Ama winching line

Post by Mal »

I've now changed the float winching line on Pelican to 8mm uprated racing Dyneema. Makes a huge difference to the effort needed to winch floats in and out. I notice, though, that when applying the Easylocks they seem to allow more line through before they grip. Don't know yet whether this down to the reduced diameter line, or if they are in need of lubrication/maintenance.

Obviously can't answer yet as to how long the line will last.

Incidentally, my friend has a Farrier F9AX, and that is specified with 6mm Dyneema main halyard. His sail is bigger and therefore heavier than the standard DF920 sail I would have thought. He's had the boat for many years, and the halyard has never failed. Anyone used 6mm on DF920? Would be lighter, cheaper, but hard on the hands?

Specra/Dyneema? I always thought that they were the same thing marketed under different trade names.
DF920 Pelican, Swansea
Post Reply