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DF 1000 holding tank replacement project

 
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Double Horizon



Joined: 09 May 2007
Posts: 427
Location: USA

DF 1000 holding tank replacement project   Posted: Wed 27 Mar 13, 5:37    Reply with quote

DF 1000 head plumbing re-fit advice:
What I did to improve on the factory holding tank:
1) cut open the floor on the port cabin sole, being careful to cut a straight edge at the seat base and centerboard and keep it in one piece, so it could become a hinged cover later.



2) removed factory tank.
As you can see, this tank was a ticking time bomb.




3) removed all factory discharge hoses, except the one from the Y valve to the bow pump-out port.
4) removed Y valve
5) installed new 20 gallon polypropylene plastic Ronco tank in large space beneath V-berth. Tank was fitted (all fittings in top) with 1" vent, two 1.5" outlets with suction pickup tube, and one 1.5" inlet from toilet, all with 90-degree fittings. (Adding a second pickup tube so there was one for OB discharge and one for pumpout eliminated the need for a Y valve and all its complications.)


6) ran new inlet from toilet through bathroom cabinet, through forward bulkhead into space beneath berth on port side, then through to center section where tank was mounted.
7) all other discharge lines were run to forward space beneath v-berth where overboard pump was mounted from factory (vent, hose out to deck outlet (no pump needed on that line), outlet to discharge pump to overboard through-hull).
8 ) space where tank used to be was refinished. Centerboard trunk was also refinished with paint tinted to match hull liner (removed padded vinyl). Floor edges refinished and fitted with stainless piano hinge on seat-base side, mated to a stop on the centerboard side, so it could be walked on and used for storage. Space within sanded, painted, and used for storage (our "wine cellar" for canned and bottled goods, mostly).

The stop or ledge on the centerboard that supports the floor had not yet been added in the above image. I used a piece of angle aluminum and epoxied it in place.

After all the trim was fitted it looked almost as if nothing had been done.

9) new 1" vent went to new through hull at side of bow, beneath v-berth (as high as possible). This would allow some small amount of water to enter the vent when crashing into waves in rough conditions, for each wave. This required that the vent line have no dips in the mid-sections to trap water. The vent must be clear to prevent anaerobic conditions that lead to bacteria growth (it's anaerobic bacteria that cause odor -- vent is not just to relieve pressure). Because it let in water, that portion of the project could be improved upon, but it was a minor issue.

I left out a lot of detail in this post. If anyone is going to try this project I encourage you to contact me for advice that will help you do this more quickly and effectively. I encountered some issues and learned a few things I'd be happy to pass along.
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Larry - DF-1200 Double Horizon


Last edited by Double Horizon on Wed 27 Mar 13, 6:09; edited 2 times in total
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Steve B.



Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Posts: 209
Location: USA, Whidbey Island WA

Almost a Carbon Copy !   Posted: Wed 27 Mar 13, 5:47    Reply with quote

Larry,

Your installation is almost the same as mine which I did 12 years ago.
I made the floor hinge in the same way and also added one to the bilge cover as well.
That forward space is now housing our kitties litterbox with the bilge pump below.
The space now occupies our Spectra watermaker, and the holding tank is in the same place as yours, albiet slightly smaller.
The vent line goes out below the vanity sink along with the watermaker's brine discharge line.
One of these days, I'll post pics too.

Steve
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Double Horizon



Joined: 09 May 2007
Posts: 427
Location: USA

   Posted: Wed 27 Mar 13, 5:59    Reply with quote

Yes Steve -- I should have acknowledged that your images (that you had emailed me before I started) paved the way for me and made it easier to think the job through. Thank you.

The hardest part of this whole job was getting the surface of the centerboard trunk clean enough to be painted, after removing the gooey adhesive from the foam-backed vinyl. Cleaning up the dust after grinding the edges of the floor was also no picnic. Smile

Another tip for anyone who tries this, is that the 1.5" hose between the holding tank and Y valve is attached to the bottom of the bathroom floor with tie wraps screwed-in. You can reach under and pry them with a flat bar until they come loose, or simply detach both ends then pull with a LOT of force until they rip out. (I didn't know what was holding them and I bought a camera to find this out.)
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Steve B.



Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Posts: 209
Location: USA, Whidbey Island WA

   Posted: Wed 27 Mar 13, 15:35    Reply with quote

Larry,

No wonder your procedure was nearly the same !
I had forgotten about sending you pics. Laughing

Steve
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TC



Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Posts: 60
Location: USA, Sedro-Woolley

Hoses   Posted: Thu 28 Mar 13, 18:42    Reply with quote

Larry,

Let me start by stating I realize the head hose fitting is probably 1.5 inch and using 1.5 inch hose was natural.

However, was using a reducer and using a smaller diameter hose to the tank considered?

This question stems from the desire to move the poo from the head and into the tank without leaving any waste in the hose.

Yes, I'm assuming (dangerous word I know) the poo/tp has been sufficiently macerated by the head pump/duck bill.

After a bit of math:
1.5 inch hose needs 2.2 quarts water to move waste 6 feet.
1 inch hose needs only 50% or roughly a quart to move it 6 feet.
.75 inch hose needs only 25% or roughly a pint to move it 6 feet.

Assuming 2.5 quarts per flush (2.2 water and .3 waste - no commentary on the color of one's eyes, only making the math easy), the 20 gal tank would handle around 32 flushes. Assuming 1 quart total, the .75 inch diameter hose could increase this to 80 flushes.

Or am I over thinking this and the hose can/should handle having waste sitting in it and clearing the bowl is good enough?
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Strider
DF 1000 #17
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Double Horizon



Joined: 09 May 2007
Posts: 427
Location: USA

   Posted: Thu 28 Mar 13, 20:13    Reply with quote

I think it does not matter at all if you leave some waste in the hose, unless you flush with fresh water. (No Dragonfly carries enough water in the tanks for that to be practical, unless you add a watermaker.) The dead organisms in sea water will die in the hose and stink from anaerobic bacteria regardless, even if you flush well. Buy the best hose you can (I used Trident's best grade).

In my project setup, the flush water sits in the hose between the toilet joker valve and the top of the curve inside the sink cabinet. Fron there to the tank is all down-hill. The other place is between the pickup for the deck pumpout and the bow, but that hose gets sucked mostly empty (like a drinking straw, but you wouldn't want to). Confused .
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tpaliwoda



Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 215
Location: USA, Raritan YC, Perth Amboy, New Jersey

   Posted: Thu 28 Mar 13, 23:51    Reply with quote

Nice job!

Did the same job last year, but I installed a Ronco 12 gallon tank under the V-berth.
Spent a lot of time and effort on that job. Really a pain in the butt but really came out nice.


Steve - on another note - I saw those landslides in your area. Hope everything ok by your house?


Ted
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tpaliwoda



Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 215
Location: USA, Raritan YC, Perth Amboy, New Jersey

   Posted: Fri 29 Mar 13, 0:09    Reply with quote

Nice job!

Did the same job last year, but I installed a Ronco 12 gallon tank under the V-berth.
Spent a lot of time and effort on that job. Really a pain in the butt but really came out nice.


Steve - on another note - I saw those landslides in your area. Hope everything ok by your house?


Ted
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Ted Paliwoda
D'Fly 1000 ; HN #1
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Raritan YC, Perth Amboy, NJ, USA
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Steve B.



Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Posts: 209
Location: USA, Whidbey Island WA

Poo Tanks and the Slide   Posted: Fri 29 Mar 13, 2:06    Reply with quote

Don't worry guys, that slide is about four miles North of me.
There IS an active slide across the canal and on the other side of a street behind a row of houses, but it's (so far) quite small.
The hill is about 150 feet high, and the bank is near 45 degrees.
It took out a guy's garage last fall.

The people North of us are in deep doo doo.
Insurance doesn't cover slides, and many have no power, water, sewer, or even access to their cars which might have to be eventually retrieved by boat.

23 photos:

http://mynorthwest.com/129/2237792/Landslide-destroys-one-home-threatens-more-on-Whidbey-Island?pid=0


Steve
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