Hauling her out for bottom paint and resealing cabin

including Amas (Floats), Akas (Beams) , Swing Wing system and all other hull related issues.
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cogniz
Posts: 52
Joined: Tue 02 Dec 14, 4:02
Your Country: USA, Savannah, GA

Hauling her out for bottom paint and resealing cabin

Post by cogniz »

Hello folks.
Happy New Year!

I'm hauling the boat this weekend to do all the work I should have done last winter when we brought her home. Honestly we were so excited to learn how to rig her and get her in the water I put off what I should have done...well, it's time to beautify her.

A quick update...thanks to all of your guidance, we had an incredible summer on the water around Savannah, GA. Grounded a couple of times (sailed off once, motored off once) but overall learned a ton about the boat, sailing and our local waters. Here's my wife's blog on our adventures (aka, learning curve) http://underthemossyoaks.com/?s=boat

QUESTIONS-
1. Bottom Paint - Hard or Soft? I'm reading up and have a great local expert at the supply house I've yet to talk to. We will likely leave her dockside for 8 months of year. I welcome your input. And I'm doing the work myself.
2. Haul Out - Buy proper boat stands, use strong saw horses (or DIY my own), or rent stands? I plan on bottom painting and work on the Board.
3. Leaks In Cabin - I think it's overhead cabin leaks...and the front hatch leaks. I've replaced all the o-rings in the dogs so I'm guessing it's the hatch gasket or the frame is leaking. Has anyone pulled them? If I pull the frames do I risk pulling gel coat too? Marine silicon upon reinstall?
4. Mast rotation arm stops are bent down (it has rubbed a hole through the solar panel). Any guidance here is appreciated.

That's it for now. As always, I'm truly indebted to this community.
Happy New Year y'all!

Rad
Cogniz
SV Turas
Radford Harrell
SW800 #242
gminkovsky
Posts: 210
Joined: Wed 01 Nov 06, 19:58
Your Country: USA, Long Island Sound

Post by gminkovsky »

1. soft expensive ablative paint. I use micron extra - works very well and will last more than 1 season. no sanding required when repainting. I used Micron 66 - nothing ever adhered to it. it also did not adhere to the hull well. removed completely. I also tried hydrocoat once but not nearly as good as micron extra. get a full respirator. i've been using the same with the same filter for the last 5 or so years. I suggest first time to really prep the surface well - power wash, scrape and sand; then wipe with Special Thinner 216; then put 3 coats. If the surface is in poor condition put a coat of Primocon before painting. The next spring just power wash and launch. The next year put a single coat and only up to the true (actual) water line. Then you can skip every other year and just power wash or put a quick coat (wash; wipe with thinner; paint). No sanding except the very first time!

2. why not just leave on a trailer? buy 2 more stands (used) and a piece of 10x2 to put across 2 stands so you can raise one end of the boat or another to reach all spots. The only reason to use full height stands is if you need to remove the board.

3. i hate leaks. they can be very difficult to trace. i avoid leaks. I've had minor leaks through windows - tighten screws solved it. I had leaks through hatch handles - o-rings solved it. i have a minor leak around mast step/mast support. i think it may be related to all electrical connections. sealed and covered for this winter. will know result in spring.

4. why not just unbend?
Double Horizon
Posts: 440
Joined: Wed 09 May 07, 0:18
Your Country: USA

Post by Double Horizon »

1) Bottom paint -- I concur with George.
2) Haul out -- Buy proper stands or a trailer. Just say NO to saw horses. You can't just put stands anywhere on a Dragonfly. They must be under the water stays (where they connect to center hull) or along the centerline of center hull preferably within a foot or less of the centerboard trunk. (Those are solid glass areas that are structurally the strongest.) If you place stands under foam cored areas you may do serious damage and "oil can" or crack the hull. Also, stands under the amas are just to prevent the boat from blowing over -- do NOT lift from the amas.
3) Leaks. Doubtful it's the hull-attached frames. It could be the bedding between the acrylic and the opening frame. You can find sources online for how to replace the acrylic in hatches. I recommend butyl tape instead of other types of sealant. I believe butyl is what Quorning uses to bed the hatches to the hull.
4) Unbend or replace.

Good luck.
Larry - Former Owner DF-1200
Christian
Posts: 182
Joined: Mon 13 Nov 06, 21:55
Your Country: Sweden, Nacka

Soft paint?

Post by Christian »

Is soft paint the leaching type of paint?

I used it once and will never do it again. I got that color on everything. It got to ropes, fenders. And from that to other stuff. It was a mess.

Spent quite a time removing it.
Double Horizon
Posts: 440
Joined: Wed 09 May 07, 0:18
Your Country: USA

Re: Soft paint?

Post by Double Horizon »

Christian wrote:Is soft paint the leaching type of paint?

I used it once and will never do it again. I got that color on everything. It got to ropes, fenders. And from that to other stuff. It was a mess.

Spent quite a time removing it.
Yes but they are not all the same. In the US, Interlux Micron 66 will do what you described. I had a similar problem with it.

Other ablative paints such as Micron CSC, Micron Extra, or Pettit Hydrocoat (water based) behave much better, but are not as effective against slime and may need to be wiped once a month.

Interlux is owned by AkzoNobel so they might sell similar paints under different brands in Europe.
Larry - Former Owner DF-1200
TC
Posts: 61
Joined: Fri 31 Dec 10, 20:26
Your Country: USA, Sedro-Woolley

2 cents worth...

Post by TC »

Paint: Opinions vary, particularly with your specific environment. For instance, hard VC17 works well on the Great Lakes. I understand it works well in brackish water also, particularly if you pull the boat often. Here in the PNW, Strider is in the water all year long. The Salish Sea is salt, but not as salty as the tropics. A buddy o'mine loves ablative. I like hard since I feel ablative might go away too fast because of our boat speed. The hard can be scrub brushed and not loose a bunch of paint. I use Pettit Trinidad. Nice, hard, smooth finish that works well in my environment. So, what do your locals use? Probably the best advice.

I've the OEM cradle but have also used 4 stands under the waterstay/fold point/shoulder. I was not completely comfortable with this and chained the two forward and two aft stands to each other to prevent them from slipping out. Then I added 2 more stands, one under the stern and one under the bow just to prevent tipping as I moved about aboard.

Hatch leaks. Try a light coat of silicon gasket grease on the hatch gasket. I've removed the hatches completely (painstaking). Pulled the old gasket from the bottom of the hatch and replaced it with butyl tape from:
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/butyl_tape
Stuff works great! Here is the how to page:
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/rebedding_hardware

Cannot help with the rotating mast.... Good luck!
TC

Formerly of:
Strider
DF 1000 #17
Christian
Posts: 182
Joined: Mon 13 Nov 06, 21:55
Your Country: Sweden, Nacka

The mast rotation arm

Post by Christian »

Rad

The mast rotation arm is supposed to have a rope connected to the boom. There should be a connector point at the boom just above. (you got a block there) The end of the rope should go aft on the boom to a clam sheet so it may be adjusted from cockpit.

The arm should be in about 90 degrees from mast, not tuching deck.

Shorter rope less rotation. If the mast don't rotate every tack the rig is to tight. / Christian
cogniz
Posts: 52
Joined: Tue 02 Dec 14, 4:02
Your Country: USA, Savannah, GA

Update - Defender order, mast base repaired, sanded one ama.

Post by cogniz »

Howdy folks.
Quick updates...

After talking with a couple of yards and reading y'alls guidance, I'm leaning toward the Micron Extra CSC. West Marine Gold and one of the Petit products got good reviews too.

QUESTION- How much paint do I buy? I'm going to go with the Special Thinner 216 first, then the Primacon primer...

Bought a good sander (Bosch) and hit the first ama yesterday. About 4 hours of focused work and the old bottom paint was gone. Found some fiberglass repairs that were not disclosed. They look good luckily.

Ordering lots of line, new mast base sheaves, tiller handle, solar panel, hatch seals and some shroud boots. Very excited to get her back in the water. More to come.

Thanks again for all of your help and wisdom. I head much of it!
Radford Harrell
SW800 #242
gminkovsky
Posts: 210
Joined: Wed 01 Nov 06, 19:58
Your Country: USA, Long Island Sound

Post by gminkovsky »

My 920 requires just short of a gallon per coat. 1.5 gallon (6 l) is enough for 2 coats. You will probably need a little over 1 gallon for 2 coats. 2 gl will be enough for 3 coats, and then you can definitely skip painting next year!
gminkovsky
Posts: 210
Joined: Wed 01 Nov 06, 19:58
Your Country: USA, Long Island Sound

Post by gminkovsky »

Use a respirator with 216 or paint!!!! Otherwise you will get high and lose a year off your life expectancy...


*** USE a RESPIRATOR ***.

Home Depot or Defender.. Just read the instructions to get the right kind.
cogniz
Posts: 52
Joined: Tue 02 Dec 14, 4:02
Your Country: USA, Savannah, GA

Update II

Post by cogniz »

Ended up going Micron Extra CSC, 216 thinner and the Interlux epoxy as step one.
The respirator wisdom was taken to heart early so I bought the Bosch sander and have it hooked to the Shop Vac. Very little dust so my respirator doesn't have to work too hard (I hope).

Got the Defender order in (paralleled with Amazon Prime where it made sense) but could not find the mast base sheaves. Emailed Richard but yet to hear back.

Also, discovered the main sail outhaul (crank in the boom??) was about to part so pulled that apart to replace the line.

Final pieces to address: hatch leaks (main and amas), some other mystery through the cabin leak (starboard winch I think), solar panel replacement, outboard oil change and water pump, and a stain and urethane coating on all the interior wood...

Cannot wait to get her in the water. Thanks again y'all for so much guidance.

rad
Radford Harrell
SW800 #242
gminkovsky
Posts: 210
Joined: Wed 01 Nov 06, 19:58
Your Country: USA, Long Island Sound

Post by gminkovsky »

Re respirator: the one you use for dusty work is not necessarily correct for paint and solvents. Make sure to get the filter cartridge for VOC.
cogniz
Posts: 52
Joined: Tue 02 Dec 14, 4:02
Your Country: USA, Savannah, GA

VOC respirator...wisdom

Post by cogniz »

Yep, grabbed a "lead paint / particulate" filter. Thanks for the check on getting a VOC filter.
Radford Harrell
SW800 #242
cogniz
Posts: 52
Joined: Tue 02 Dec 14, 4:02
Your Country: USA, Savannah, GA

Update

Post by cogniz »

Just wrote up an update here http://www.dragonfly-trimarans.org/phpB ... .php?t=802

Thanks to everyone for your help. We've had a couple of days on the water this last week and I'm very happy that season of work is over...
Radford Harrell
SW800 #242
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