Chart Plotter

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Mal
Posts: 83
Joined: Thu 02 Nov 06, 16:48
Your Country: Wales

Chart Plotter

Post by Mal »

Advice, please. I would like to fit a chartplotter to my 920. Which model have you used? Have you cut a hole in the bulkhead to port of the saloon companionway, recessing the unit in the near vertical face below the port genoa winch? This is how it looks in the pictures on the Quorning website. Is it OK to cut such a big hole? e.g. a Standard Horizon 7" plotter needs a cut out roughly 6 x 4". It also appears too big left to right;- ends up directly below the cam cleat for the port genoa winch. Is there a plotter that is 'portrait' rather than 'landscape' that is a better fit?

The 5" plotter has much smaller recessing hole, but is the screen too small? Which plotter to Quornings fit?

Where do you site the remote antenna?

It would be simpler to use a surface mounting plotter with integral antenna. However, fitted to the bulkhead, they all look like they would stick out too much and be liable to get damaged.

Any suggestions?

Thanks

Mal
DF920 Pelican, Swansea
Oscar
Posts: 148
Joined: Tue 26 Aug 08, 23:10
Your Country: USA, North East

Post by Oscar »

I would NOT cut a hole for a plotter. Their lifespan appears to be just a few years until the next model becomes last years model and cheap enough to replace what you have, now you have a hole that may or may not be right.

I would either have a swing arm to bring it in and out...(this adds the benefit of being able to use it inside), or I would build/buy a box to flush mount it in and then mount the box on the bulkhead. A few screw holes are a lot easier to hide than a big hole.

As far as size..... 5" is my personal minimum, I am trying very hard to find something larger that will do the job and not bust the budget.
1990 Dragonfly 25 USA-54
Gonzo
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu 02 Nov 06, 10:58
Your Country: UK, Devon

Post by Gonzo »

I agree that cutting holes in bulkheads is nott he way to go.
We had a half height perspex wash board and fitted a Garmin ChartPlotter into that. It had a 10" screen. When not in place it was located on the chart table where a slotted piece of wood held it in place. This was on a 920 Hybrid. It worked very well although you had to be carefull of the cables. The antenna was mounted on the stern.
On the current boat , 35 Ultimate , we have a Garmin 4010 that is mounted on a wooden block and located on the Coachroof where it is held in place by a bungee, it sits behind the windscreen which protects it. It can also be located on the Chart Table. The antenna is located behind a false bulkhead on the chart table screwed into the ceiling and works well even if someone is sitting over it. Due to the distance from the Chart Table to the coach roof I had to extend the Garmin Cables so that they could reach when the hatch is shut. The 3 cables were all shrink wrapped and strapped together and clip to a hook under the coach roof by the hatch so that they don't get snagged by people going in and out of the cabin.
gminkovsky
Posts: 210
Joined: Wed 01 Nov 06, 19:58
Your Country: USA, Long Island Sound

Post by gminkovsky »

Have you considered a laptop with GPS and navigation software?

I've been on boats with chartplotter right at the helm, typically on the binnacle. It is convenient. However, laptops have much bigger display and have more functionality. They can be integrated with a radar, AIS, and other instruments.

I use an out-of-date laptop (1999 with 4gb drive and 196mb RAM) with a serial cable to Garmin GPS 72. My software is Maptech Offshore Navigator. All US digital charts are free from the US NOAA.

The laptop is mounted on a swing out table attached to the port cabinet. I can swing it inside and work inside the cabin or swing it outside so that it is in the companion way - visible to the helmsman and fully protected from spray and sun.

This setup including a purchase of out-of-date laptop and software is well under USD 500.

So far I've used this for the last 6 years and am ready to throw the laptop overboard and upgrade to the next out-of-date laptop and a USB GPS. This will eliminate 2 extra cables.

The GPS does not have to be outside. It works perfectly through the fiberglass. I typically leave it under the port window on the shelf.

To make an ultimate setup you could get a Panasonic Toughbook laptop or similar with waterproof screen and keyboard, a blacklbox GPS that plugs into usb and is glued to the laptop case. But this laptop is expensive.

Other benefits of the laptop include: trip planning at home, playing movies from DVD or a portable disk drive, full Internet access with a 3G card.
Gonzo
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu 02 Nov 06, 10:58
Your Country: UK, Devon

Post by Gonzo »

Laptops can suffer vibration problems which cause screen failure on even short trips. I'm a Software Engineer, I've desinged systems that go around the world or nearly in the case of Bransons Balloon, using Inmarsat or SSB for comms. I'm all in favour of gathering information. We do long races , 2 RSYC Biscay Challenges so far , 540 miles each way, but I wouldn't trust a laptop

Gonzo
Crew/Alternate Helm and Technical Bloke
Cold Fusion Reloaded
Dragonfly 35 Ultimate
gminkovsky
Posts: 210
Joined: Wed 01 Nov 06, 19:58
Your Country: USA, Long Island Sound

Post by gminkovsky »

vibration? on a boat?

New York City police cars have laptops. Cars on NY streets have a lot more vibration than boats. All police laptops seem just fine. Every utility company in New York uses laptops in their vehicles without problems. From technology perspective, the only difference between chartplotter and laptop is the disk. all modern laptops have sensors for vibration or sudden drops that stop the drive. My junk 1999 IBM P570 has survived about 2000 nautical miles of usage and has been stored on a boat for 6 years. At the current price of ~ USD 0 to USD 50 for a 7 year old laptop, I will happily dump one overboard every year.

Every new high end cruising and racing boat has 1 or more laptops on board. I took my piece of junk to 3-day distance races on other people's boats and lent it to friends chartering boats.

There are a number of DF owners that have laptops on their boats. At least a few of them have pretty substantial technology backgrounds...
Gonzo
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu 02 Nov 06, 10:58
Your Country: UK, Devon

Post by Gonzo »

I used to work with a marine communications company, I designed remote monitoring and control systems using Inmarsat and SSB but a lot of the business was supplying Inmarsat messaging systems so that world travellers could communicate with the outside world. We also supplied round the world racers including the Challenge Business. I've seen a lot of problems with the ribbon cable failing between the laptop base and screen. People leave the laptop open and over an Atlantic crossing it gets a lot of movement. Its not weekend sailing. You can't pick up another laptop when you are out at sea.A lot of professional racing users actually strapped their laptops to bulkheads to alleviate this sort of problem.
If you use a laptop occasionally and close it when its not in use then you may not have problems,
You can also get ruggedised laptops that stand up a lot better,

We use a chart plotter for racing, putting in the next mark on the chartplotter gives us the VMG to it, its also very usefull when
AIS is giving you shipping information, we use it all the time and a laptop just wouldn't work. We do two handed racing around the Solent, across the Channel ( very busy ) and also across Biscay last month, we need a unit that is weatherproof and easily seen from the helm
and also can be controlled by crew in around the cans racng.

cheers
Gonzo

crew Cold Fusion Reloaded
Dragonfly 35 ultimate #28
Oscar
Posts: 148
Joined: Tue 26 Aug 08, 23:10
Your Country: USA, North East

Post by Oscar »

Had a plotter at the helm AND a laptop below running backup charts and the AIS. Never had a problem in 6000 miles. Also had a handheld Garmin 76, and a bag with 50 AA batteries. Nothing is perfect, anything can fail. Redundancy is the key.
All US digital charts are free from the US NOAA.
Not all governments give out their charts for free.
1990 Dragonfly 25 USA-54
Double Horizon
Posts: 440
Joined: Wed 09 May 07, 0:18
Your Country: USA

Laptop vs. chart-plotter

Post by Double Horizon »

I see valid points on both sides of this, and I think we can all agree redundancy is good.

Laptops can be made much more reliable with solid-state disk, but unless you get a ruggedized-weatherproof unit (expensive) they are best left to inside mounting. Even a laptop on swing-away shelf at the companionway hatch is not well-protected in a following rain or heavy conditions.

I opt for both -- a chart-plotter at the helm and laptop on the navigation table (in view of the companionway).

For route planning purposes nothing beats a laptop with it's point-click interface, high quality screen and excellent software. (I recommend Rose Point Navigation's Coastal Explorer).

For low-visibility in fog or heavy weather, nothing beats having a weatherproof chart-plotter and radar at the helm position.

Another very useful tool is Internet access (when you can get it). We use a cellular broadband connection to track weather using online Doppler radar images, so we can follow even local storms and anticipate approaching thunderstorms before they come into view. In particular I like http://www.wunderground.com or the PDA version http://m.wund.com/
Larry - Former Owner DF-1200
Oscar
Posts: 148
Joined: Tue 26 Aug 08, 23:10
Your Country: USA, North East

Post by Oscar »

Yes the weather via cell is a great resource. Of course now there's the XM/Sirius option that will overlay it directly on your Raymarine/Garmin at the helm.....
1990 Dragonfly 25 USA-54
tpaliwoda
Posts: 215
Joined: Fri 03 Nov 06, 3:05
Your Country: USA, Raritan YC, Perth Amboy, New Jersey

Post by tpaliwoda »

I have my Simrad CP mounted on a swing out bracket, mounted down below. I can swing it into the companion way or swing it down below.
Totally integrated with the other electronics (B&G).
Pretty sweet system. As for the antena, I mounted that on the swim platform. Not the greatest of spots, but is out of the way 95% of the time.
Ted
Ted Paliwoda
D'Fly 1000 ; HN #1
Nice Tri
Raritan YC, Perth Amboy, NJ, USA
Ipe Piccardt Brouwer
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed 01 Nov 06, 17:17
Your Country: Netherlands, Winkel NH

Plotter

Post by Ipe Piccardt Brouwer »

I am very happy with my integrated (AIS included) Raymarine C70 plotter, flushmounted in the port bulkhead. Even if it becomes obsolete, it will be just as usefull as it is now.
As a backup I have paper charts, and a complete NW europe Navionics set (just 20 euros!) on my iPhone
Ipe Piccardt Brouwer
DF920-28 'Ngalawa', Medemblik
Steve B.
Posts: 235
Joined: Thu 02 Nov 06, 1:58
Your Country: USA, Whidbey Island WA

Mounting a chartplotter

Post by Steve B. »

My DF 1000 had a chartplotter on the cockpit starboard bulkhead and a LCD radar on the port bulkhead. There was no place comfortable to lean against when anchored, and I was always asking someone to move so I could see the screen(s).

I filled the holes after replacing them with a Garmin 5208 radar/chartplotter combo at the helm.
I made a small forward extension for the compass which is unaffected by the Garmin.


Steve
Oscar
Posts: 148
Joined: Tue 26 Aug 08, 23:10
Your Country: USA, North East

Post by Oscar »

As a backup I have paper charts
Always carry paper.
1990 Dragonfly 25 USA-54
Double Horizon
Posts: 440
Joined: Wed 09 May 07, 0:18
Your Country: USA

Re: Plotter

Post by Double Horizon »

Ipe Piccardt Brouwer wrote:I am very happy with my integrated (AIS included) Raymarine C70 plotter, flushmounted in the port bulkhead. Even if it becomes obsolete, it will be just as usefull as it is now.
Hopefully your boat will have a longer useful life than it's electronics. Last year we had an autopilot computer failure (8 years old) and Raymarine said they could not repair the obsolete course computer, but would replace it with a newer model (at a great discount). Of course the new unit was a different size. You may find yourself going to a larger display head in the future or adding a panel (for backing) just so you don't have to add fiberglass to reduce your cut-out size.

Now Simrad/Northstar are selling "broadband radar" which is about the same price as older technology but has better definition, lower power draw, and instant start-up. If either end of my radar were to fail today I would seriously consider an upgrade to that technology. I can't honestly say that the clarity of small-boat radar has been satisfying, but we make-do with what we can get for a reasonable price.
Larry - Former Owner DF-1200
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