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Trailering DF 28 Which car ? which licence?

 
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pippo



Joined: 08 Dec 2010
Posts: 16
Location: Netherlands, Haarlem/Italy, Milan

Trailering DF 28 Which car ? which licence?   Posted: Wed 22 Dec 10, 0:04    Reply with quote

Dear All,

It is a while I am reading this great forum but this is my first post.

My multihull credentials are limited to a couple of hours of inebriating test on a DF 920. They were sufficient to convince me to put for sale my family's beloved old Contest 25 and go for a DF 28 with which it was love at first sight when I saw her at the Amsterdam boat show Hiswa in 2009 (she was now for sale second hand).

I took also the aluminum trailer. While father Christmas, Sint Niklaas etc are now bankrupt I still need to take a (second hand) car to tow it as my FIAT punto cannot do that.

My problem is that I have only a B licence and should not go above the 3500 kg total mass (car+trailer).

Taking the B+E licence is quite complicated in Italy where I live. Any experience in this respect? Any car strong enough to pull the DF 28 up and down between Italy and Holland but not so heavy as to require the B+E licence?

I read the previous discussions on trailering other DFs but did not seem to find an answer. Do all the trailer sailors have a B+E?

Thanks a lot, hope to have more interesting topics/questions once I will have her on the water in April.

Merry Christmas
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pippo
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Ipe Piccardt Brouwer



Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Posts: 64
Location: Netherlands, Winkel NH

   Posted: Wed 22 Dec 10, 16:14    Reply with quote

You will always need the B+E licence. You need it when your car is lighter than your trailer and you need it when car+trailer>3500.
Assuming boat+trailer are heavier than 1750kg, one of each conditions will always be met. So good luck bribing your driving examinator (sorry about that silly bigotted italofobic joke Wink).
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Ipe Piccardt Brouwer
DF920-28 'Ngalawa', Medemblik
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pippo



Joined: 08 Dec 2010
Posts: 16
Location: Netherlands, Haarlem/Italy, Milan

   Posted: Mon 27 Dec 10, 12:39    Reply with quote

Ipe Piccardt Brouwer wrote:
You will always need the B+E licence. You need it when your car is lighter than your trailer and you need it when car+trailer>3500.
Assuming boat+trailer are heavier than 1750kg, one of each conditions will always be met. So good luck bribing your driving examinator (sorry about that silly bigotted italofobic joke Wink).


Ipe, Dank-je. I checked the EU directive better and indeed you are right.
Unfortunately for your great idea things in Italy are not so easy ..Cool as one may want to believe.
The problem is not so much the examinator but the doctor, so unless with new glasses I can see more or I convince my wife to get the B+E you will know who is the unexperience shortsighted idiot perturbing the peace of the Ijsselmeer which I guess is your sailing ground as well.

I have seen that there are several DF in Monnikedam, I plan to keep mine, at least for part of the year in Uitdam, is there any DF event in our waters? I would be nice to meet up at some stage.
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Ipe Piccardt Brouwer



Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Posts: 64
Location: Netherlands, Winkel NH

DF events in the Netherlands   Posted: Mon 27 Dec 10, 13:26    Reply with quote

Hi Pippo - welcome to the club!

There are no specific DF events that I know of but the Catamaran en Trimaranclub regularly organise events where Dragonfly's are well represented.

Take a look at the website www.ctcnederland.nl en maybe I'll see you at the rondje IJsselmeer in may next year!
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DF920-28 'Ngalawa', Medemblik
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pippo



Joined: 08 Dec 2010
Posts: 16
Location: Netherlands, Haarlem/Italy, Milan

   Posted: Thu 03 Feb 11, 18:00    Reply with quote

[quote="pippo"]
Ipe Piccardt Brouwer wrote:
You will always need the B+E licence. You need it when your car is lighter than your trailer and you need it when car+trailer>3500.
Assuming boat+trailer are heavier than 1750kg, one of each conditions will always be met. So good luck bribing your driving examinator (sorry about that silly bigotted italofobic joke Wink).


Update: first hurdle down, new glasses allowed me to pass the doctor test. I am now confident I'll get the required B+E driving licence before the summer.

This bring to the second question: WHICH CAR DO YOU NEED TO TOW A DF 28? I guess the weight (2500kg with the trailer) is not so different from a 920 and little more than the 800.

What are the experiences out there?

I plan to tow it twice per year but over a long distance (from Holland to south Italy or Greece) or from Holland to the Baltic (but there no mountains are involved) and back.

Thanks,
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Mal



Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Posts: 83
Location: Wales

Trailering   Posted: Fri 04 Feb 11, 18:40    Reply with quote

Pippo;- I have done towing of Telstar 26, and Farrier F27. It is always tempting to get something as small as possible to tow;- rest of the time when not towing not too expensive to run! Pulling the boat is not the problem;- its stopping the thing that's difficult.

Also, if the boat/trailer set up is heavier than the tow vehicle, the tendency is for the tail to wag the dog. Believe me, this can be truly terrifying! I have found pick-up trucks like Toyota Hilux not to be brilliant;- a bit light on the back end. Land Rovers are amongst the best;- I believe that they are rated for towing up to 3.5 tonne. I've certainly found them very good for towing, but they have the aerodynamics of a house brick, and are expensive to run.

One of the best little tow-trucks I've used is the long wheelbase Suzuki Grand Vitara, 2 litre turbo diesel. Has a low-range gearbox, too, like a Landy. Useful on the slipway;- no need to slip the clutch too much. Was OK with the F27, but might be a bit light for your DF28 set up. You'd have to check the figures.

So err towards bigger rather than smaller;- you'll be glad when a 42 ton truck goes past you and starts the trailer wagging!

Oh, and fit a stabiliser system onto the towbar and trailer to reduce snaking.

Have to admit I came to hate trailering:- ended up doing as much work on the trailers as on the boats....pants!

Have fun

Mal
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aro



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 22
Location: Sweden, Limhamn

   Posted: Thu 24 Mar 11, 13:51    Reply with quote

Experience...

Mitshubishi L200 to light and to weak, back end of car moving where the trailer dictated and barley made it up the hills of Denmark (!). But made it home (Malmö, Sweden)!

Nissan Navarra is dangerous, you can forget that you have something attached back there. No really, a dream to drive with a DF 28 on tow.
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Oscar



Joined: 26 Aug 2008
Posts: 148
Location: USA, North East

   Posted: Sun 22 May 11, 4:19    Reply with quote

Hoi

Cannot give you a specific answer to your question as to models, but can give you some technical background. I have done a LOT of trailering over the years: boats, campers, cargo trailers.

First, look at the maximum weight capacity of the vehicle.....then do NOT exceed 80% of that, and personally I prefer 60%. Second, take roughly 10% of the total trailer weight and that is what a well balanced rig should have as the hitch weight, ie the weight of the connector on the back of the tow vehicle. If it is a lot more or less than 10% of the total weight move things around in the boat to achieve this. This will avoid the "tail wagging the dog effect". Now, add the hitch weight of the trailer, all the stuff in the vehicle, and the people and make sure you do not exceed the maximum allowable weight in the vehicle. Finally, make sure the hitch, or trailer connector ball and it's connection to the vehicle are rated for the weight you are pulling. Again, observe the 80%, or better 60% guideline.

Italy to Holland and back is a serious drive. To make it comfortable and reliable have a vehicle that is MORE than capable of doing the job. Handling, driver fatigue and safety are paramount to economics. Suck it up and pay the fuel, it's the price to play. From what I have seen in Europe, I think you may want to look really hard at a diesel. Veel geluk.
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