Old subject, but the old threads end abruptly....
I understand, via this forum, Quorning recommends waterstays be replaced every 5 years. I'm guessing mine are original.
Strider is in the yard getting fiberglass repairs (where the akas meet the amas - found unresined fiberglass - a story for another time) and am doing a thorough inspection. Found one of the vaka-side, SS waterstay fittings cracking and intend to replace all the waterstays.
Got an quote from Quorning for 455 Eur each and 350 Eur shipping. None of the material is on hand and they will have to order the material and fabricate. I am exploring local options, including synthetic material. Will update as solutions are found.
Question: Has anyone found less expensive options?
Waterstays
Waterstays
TC
Formerly of:
Strider
DF 1000 #17
Formerly of:
Strider
DF 1000 #17
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gminkovsky
- Posts: 213
- Joined: Wed 01 Nov 06, 19:58
- Your Country: USA, Long Island Sound
The vaca end and the wire are pretty common albeit expensive stuff. It's the ama end with the metric thread that is a problem.
I would check with Colligo Engineering if they can make the ama fitting or the whole waterstay. Even if the ama fitting is thread-to-fork or thread-to-eye, you could have a rigger produce everything else. But the waterstay will be 2 part: vaca fitting + wire + eye, and a thread-to-fork.
Also, check with Richard.
I would check with Colligo Engineering if they can make the ama fitting or the whole waterstay. Even if the ama fitting is thread-to-fork or thread-to-eye, you could have a rigger produce everything else. But the waterstay will be 2 part: vaca fitting + wire + eye, and a thread-to-fork.
Also, check with Richard.
Solutions to date
Been working with a local rigger and a machinist specializing in stainless.
The vaca side is fairly easy and was able to open the old cable eye terminal (saw and cold chisel) to remove the pressed pin thus freeing the toggle. The toggle will be reused with new pins.
The aka side has been the challenge. The pin is 20mm course thread. Local machinist could have recreated it but we chose to go another route. Using a lathe, the machinist bored the cable out and tapped the remaining material to accept a 5/8 inch T-bolt with toggle ($47ea, 21,000 pound break strength). So, the original pin still goes into the aka and the T-bolt goes into the pin. The combination allows two adjustment points.
Considered 3/4 inch T-bolts ($120ea, 28,000 pound break strength) but the machinist thought there would not be enough material in the bored out pin.
Dux is being considered for the cable. Vaka side will be permanently knotted while the aka side will have an end sticking out for adjustment later, as things settle.
Pics when final....
The vaca side is fairly easy and was able to open the old cable eye terminal (saw and cold chisel) to remove the pressed pin thus freeing the toggle. The toggle will be reused with new pins.
The aka side has been the challenge. The pin is 20mm course thread. Local machinist could have recreated it but we chose to go another route. Using a lathe, the machinist bored the cable out and tapped the remaining material to accept a 5/8 inch T-bolt with toggle ($47ea, 21,000 pound break strength). So, the original pin still goes into the aka and the T-bolt goes into the pin. The combination allows two adjustment points.
Considered 3/4 inch T-bolts ($120ea, 28,000 pound break strength) but the machinist thought there would not be enough material in the bored out pin.
Dux is being considered for the cable. Vaka side will be permanently knotted while the aka side will have an end sticking out for adjustment later, as things settle.
Pics when final....
TC
Formerly of:
Strider
DF 1000 #17
Formerly of:
Strider
DF 1000 #17
-
gminkovsky
- Posts: 213
- Joined: Wed 01 Nov 06, 19:58
- Your Country: USA, Long Island Sound
Interesting solution! Looking forward to pictures.
I do have some concern about reusing old parts: stainless steel fittings have a tendency to fail suddenly without warning. I think there are ways to examine the parts with microscope and some acid to identify cracks... Especially the old pin bored out to accept 5/8 bolt. That combination leaves about 4 mm of diameter of the material - just over 2 mm thickness of the new female part (i hope my math is correct). I suspect that becomes the weakest link.
Why not just machine out a new 20 mm T-bolt or eye bolt? That bolt will outlast the boat.
I do have some concern about reusing old parts: stainless steel fittings have a tendency to fail suddenly without warning. I think there are ways to examine the parts with microscope and some acid to identify cracks... Especially the old pin bored out to accept 5/8 bolt. That combination leaves about 4 mm of diameter of the material - just over 2 mm thickness of the new female part (i hope my math is correct). I suspect that becomes the weakest link.
Why not just machine out a new 20 mm T-bolt or eye bolt? That bolt will outlast the boat.
Using a new 20mm T-bolt or eye-bolt was thought about. Cost was part of the factor but mainly because there is so little space at the aka end. A new 20mm T or eye (of normal length) would not turn far enough into the aka fitting before impacting the fiberglass aka. Using the old pin+T bolt combo gives enough length to put the toggle beyond the aka: It fits.
What I probably should have done was thread the inside of the old pin with left hand threads, essentially turning the pin+T bolt combo into a turnbuckle.
Also thought about using a 5/8 T-bolt solo as it will fit straight through the aka fitting (aka fitting? need some real names here) and then use a couple nuts to lock it. I will still have this option.
Also thought about using 3/4in T-bolt, but the machinist was pretty adamant there would not be enough wall left.
Want to use toggles because of the dimensional flexibility; left, right, up, down.
What I probably should have done was thread the inside of the old pin with left hand threads, essentially turning the pin+T bolt combo into a turnbuckle.
Also thought about using a 5/8 T-bolt solo as it will fit straight through the aka fitting (aka fitting? need some real names here) and then use a couple nuts to lock it. I will still have this option.
Also thought about using 3/4in T-bolt, but the machinist was pretty adamant there would not be enough wall left.
Want to use toggles because of the dimensional flexibility; left, right, up, down.
TC
Formerly of:
Strider
DF 1000 #17
Formerly of:
Strider
DF 1000 #17
Update 9Jun2015
Not trying to drive traffic to my blog, but it is easier to post a link....
So: http://skeelsrinehart.blogspot.com/2015 ... art-1.html
So: http://skeelsrinehart.blogspot.com/2015 ... art-1.html
TC
Formerly of:
Strider
DF 1000 #17
Formerly of:
Strider
DF 1000 #17
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Mika Harju
- Posts: 218
- Joined: Thu 02 Nov 06, 13:19
- Your Country: Finland, Turku
Re: Update 9Jun2015
Great, thank you for this informationTC wrote:Not trying to drive traffic to my blog, but it is easier to post a link....
So: http://skeelsrinehart.blogspot.com/2015 ... art-1.html
Mika Harju
DF1000 Racing #8
DF1000 Racing #8
Poly
Ivan,
The plastic on the Sunbrella is the flexible '40ga scratch resistance Strataglass' the maker, Tradewinds Canvas, Anacortes, WA uses on their new products: http://trawinds.com/the-tradewinds-product.html
The polycarbonate is in the aluminum frame and was sourced through Port Plastics in Seattle: http://www.portplastics.com/ It was about $90 for a 3'x6' piece of 1/8" will call.
FYI, used a previous tip of yours and purchased Ultracross Silver Knotless net from Net Systems. Will post something once I tweak the setup further. My dogs have approved of it though! Of most importance at this point, replacing the nets with the UC and Amsteel removed 38 pounds! There will be a weight reduction post once I quit fiddling with it.
The plastic on the Sunbrella is the flexible '40ga scratch resistance Strataglass' the maker, Tradewinds Canvas, Anacortes, WA uses on their new products: http://trawinds.com/the-tradewinds-product.html
The polycarbonate is in the aluminum frame and was sourced through Port Plastics in Seattle: http://www.portplastics.com/ It was about $90 for a 3'x6' piece of 1/8" will call.
FYI, used a previous tip of yours and purchased Ultracross Silver Knotless net from Net Systems. Will post something once I tweak the setup further. My dogs have approved of it though! Of most importance at this point, replacing the nets with the UC and Amsteel removed 38 pounds! There will be a weight reduction post once I quit fiddling with it.
TC
Formerly of:
Strider
DF 1000 #17
Formerly of:
Strider
DF 1000 #17
right, forgot about the hard windshield on the 1000 (1000 is the best looking DF in my view, in part because of that screen and the scoop aft of the traveler.)
Very keen to see your result with the nets. I simply can't allocate enough time to the project (restitched the nets with Tenara meanwhile, per Steve B's suggestion, $400 labor +$140 extra for using Tenara). The main issue as far as I see is how to incorporate them with the bolt-rope. Thinking about making grommets in a 2" of vinyl canvas attached to the bolt-rope, then lashing to these grommets. Alternatively sewing a zig-zag pattern of 1" webbing to that canvas, instead of grommets.
Very keen to see your result with the nets. I simply can't allocate enough time to the project (restitched the nets with Tenara meanwhile, per Steve B's suggestion, $400 labor +$140 extra for using Tenara). The main issue as far as I see is how to incorporate them with the bolt-rope. Thinking about making grommets in a 2" of vinyl canvas attached to the bolt-rope, then lashing to these grommets. Alternatively sewing a zig-zag pattern of 1" webbing to that canvas, instead of grommets.
Ivan -- DF 35 #29 "Lykke"