DF Info? (Selection & Purchase)

[Bob in Brazil]

Greetings to Forum members. Excellent contributions, well organized.

I would like to purchase a DF- but no info or boats found here in Brazil.

What is the best place on the Forum to ask basic questions? Thanks.

New Member

[Double Horizon]

I believe your closest dealer is Dragonfly USA, who handles the Americas.

http://www.trimarans.com/contact/usa.aspx

Dragonfly is exhibiting at a major boat show in Annapolis this weekend so be patient if he doesn't get right back to you.

[Bob in Brazil]

Thanks for the US link. Quorning, in several ways, may in fact be closer...

Meanwhile, may I bounce a few questions off you and other forum members? All sailors love their boats. But the commercially unmotivated are more objective. And a few questions may help jump start discussion. Unless too basic for this forum, in which case I understand.
Thanks.

Bob

[penryj]

Hi Bob, This is a great place to get the unbiased view. Keep the questions rolling in!

[Bob in Brazil]

Hi Bob, This is a great place to get the unbiased view. Keep the questions rolling in!

Awright, two simple ones? The Plan:

Buy a used boat (probably Europe), coastal cruise Europe and canals for a year or so. Then, at the ideal time of year, resell. Questions>>>

#1. MODEL (USED):
Greatest availability: 920, 1000, 35 or 1200?
Greatest demand vs. availability: 920, 1000, 35 or 1200?

BEST LIVEABOARD &/OR EXTENDED CRUISE:
DF 35 or DF 1200, or equally good?
DF 1000?
DF 920 cramped, even for spartan singlehanding?

Looking forward to opinions, thanks.
Bob

[Double Horizon]

:

Awright, two simple ones? The Plan:

Buy a used boat (probably Europe), coastal cruise Europe and canals for a year or so. Then, at the ideal time of year, resell. Questions>>>

#1. MODEL (USED):
Greatest availability: 920, 1000, 35 or 1200?
Greatest demand vs. availability: 920, 1000, 35 or 1200?

BEST LIVEABOARD &/OR EXTENDED CRUISE:
DF 35 or DF 1200, or equally good?
DF 1000?
DF 920 cramped, even for spartan singlehanding?

Looking forward to opinions, thanks.
Bob

By your reference to "spartan singlehanding" I assume you are planning on doing this single or (perhaps part-time) as a couple? I'll base my answers on that assumption...

I'll ignore #1 because that's price-sensitive and the availability fluctuates at any particular time by location and model. Obviously there are more smaller boats sold than larger more expensive ones.

#2) The 920 is not suitable for extended cruising for an adult. Yes you will be fine for a few weeks or even a summer but without a shower and hot water, or full stand-up headroom, it's "boat camping". The 1000 and larger is fully equipped with "systems" and many are sold with diesel heaters (can also be added). The 1000 and larger have full standing headroom for a 6'3" person -- at least by the galley, and the 1200 has full headroom throughout.

Obviously the 1200 is best-suited for extended cruising, followed by the 35, followed by the 1000. The difference between each model is major. There are two different galley layouts for the 35, and two different aft cabin layouts for the 1200.

3) The ideal time of year to sell is Winter or Spring, but it really doesn't seem to make much difference in demand. It's all about winter storage and insurance carrying cost.

[Bob in Brazil]

:

Awright, two simple ones? The Plan:

Buy a used boat (probably Europe), coastal cruise Europe and canals for a year or so. Then, at the ideal time of year, resell. Questions>>>

#1. MODEL (USED):
Greatest availability: 920, 1000, 35 or 1200?
Greatest demand vs. availability: 920, 1000, 35 or 1200?

BEST LIVEABOARD &/OR EXTENDED CRUISE:
DF 35 or DF 1200, or equally good?
DF 1000?
DF 920 cramped, even for spartan singlehanding?

Looking forward to opinions, thanks.
Bob

By your reference to "spartan singlehanding" I assume you are planning on doing this single or (perhaps part-time) as a couple? I'll base my answers on that assumption...

I'll ignore #1 because that's price-sensitive and the availability fluctuates at any particular time by location and model. Obviously there are more smaller boats sold than larger more expensive ones.

3) The ideal time of year to sell is Winter or Spring, but it really doesn't seem to make much difference in demand. It's all about winter storage and insurance carrying cost.

Thanks very much, Larry. For live aboard & cruising, I am sure you're right. Whether singlehanded/couple, or not (yes, your assumption IS correct), a larger boat clearly avoids the wear & tear of "camping".

But I should have been clearer>> My post was meant to be about "resale"- an issue sometimes forgotten in the joy of purchase. For the sake of discussion, let's say you were to buy the best 2-6 year old boat you could find- to avoid the usual (but not always!) new boat depreciation....

And let's say your ONLY consideration was an eventual, quick resale with the lowest possible (%) depreciation a year or two down the line. At the moment, which of the three models mentioned would you choose? 1000, 35 or 1200?

Although "resale" is only one (1) issue, I very much hope this discussion helps others think through the financial implications of purchase of their next boat. But in case it is not useful to others, I'll be sure to get in touch directly.

Thanks!
Bob

[Double Horizon]

Thanks very much, Larry. For live aboard & cruising, I am sure you're right. Whether singlehanded/couple, or not (yes, your assumption IS correct), a larger boat clearly avoids the wear & tear of "camping".

But I should have been clearer>> My post was meant to be about "resale"- an issue sometimes forgotten in the joy of purchase. For the sake of discussion, let's say you were to buy the best 2-6 year old boat you could find- to avoid the usual (but not always!) new boat depreciation....

And let's say your ONLY consideration was an eventual, quick resale with the lowest possible (%) depreciation a year or two down the line. At the moment, which of the three models mentioned would you choose? 1000, 35 or 1200?

Although "resale" is only one (1) issue, I very much hope this discussion helps others think through the financial implications of purchase of their next boat. But in case it is not useful to others, I'll be sure to get in touch directly.

Thanks!
Bob

The quick answer is to buy a 35 if that is your only criteria, or 1200 if you can afford it. There will be more potential buyers for a 35, judging by number of sales of the new boats.

I think it would be a mistake to buy a boat based on resale, because you really don't know what the future market will be and boats are a bad investment. They are a place in the water where you pour money. Now that the disclaimer has been put in writing, here in the US Dragonfly boats have held value very well (so far), for me.

I bought my 920 new and sold it 4 years later for more than I paid, after about 30 days on market. I bought my 1000 at a low price (needed work) and spent tens of thousands to refurbish and update it to a level approaching new, then after three years sold it for more than I put into it (not including routine operating and storage costs) after about 90 days on market. I bought my 2001 model 1200 3 years ago for more than the original owner paid back in 2001 (because I had to competitively bid for it, even though it was never advertised) and I know of another 2001 1200 in the area that just sold for more than I paid for mine 3 years ago (now I don't feel as bad about what I paid). A lot of that is because of the devaluation of the dollar in relation to the Euro, and also because the price of new boats has gone so high. But the main point you should take away from it is that there is a good demand for Dragonfly boats (in good condition) and if you factor resale into total cost of ownership I think they cost less than most other boats in-general.

It is more expensive to buy a small boat and upgrade to a larger model than to buy a larger one and keep it longer. I think if you take good care of it and maintain your boat in top shape you should buy the biggest one you can afford comfortably and not worry about it -- because life is good when you're sailing and you can't take money with you when your time is done.

[Bob in Brazil]

Excellent advice. You've been smart- and the currencies have been on your side. In any case, petroleum-based resins aren't getting cheaper, although typically long market cycles are shorter: 1000>>35>>1200<<(insert) 28.

And the dollar's not getting any stronger (although anyone's guess). Still- IF the best market is in Europe- it's a Euro to Euro investment. Is it?

Does Europe have the best availability and prices? And the best place to sell?

Your final advice to buy comfortably- and as comfortable as possible- is the final word on the subject. Time flies. Thanks much.
Bob